I have a big problem with my aircraft.
In flight the Aircraft beginns shaking over the wings if the AP is on.
Then I must switch the AP off, wait a moment and switch AP on.
The video is with no wind or other wether conditions in P3D.
The Aircraft ist not flyable.
I don't find a solution for this problem.
See video:
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:58 pm
by jeehell
do you use active sky?
if so try to decrease turbulence effect in active sky.
Also what are your FPS? do you have FMGS Server running on P3D PC?
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:38 pm
by dkreiskott
Hello Jean-Luc,
yes, I usually use active sky, but active sky was not started when the video was recorded. I also suspected active sky, so I tried a few flights without active sky. But the problem keeps coming back.
I locked my frames to 33 in P3D. Normally I'm between 27 - 30 frames.
No, the FMGS server is installed on a separate PC and not on the P3D PC.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 6:45 pm
by jeehell
Another user had the same issues with FMGS Server on a remote PC. Only way to solve that was to put it back on P3D PC.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:08 pm
by dkreiskott
Hello Jean Luc,
put the fmgs server back to p3d is not an option. So, what can produce this problem?
If I can send you more information, please let me know.
Can it be, a problem with the network? Firewall is not active on all PC.
The FMGS Server PC is Intel Core I5, can it be to slow?
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:29 am
by LH320
I also have this problem in Release B58.0. It usually occurs when I fly a curve with the descent. However, the FPS also decreases. In my sim FMGS Server is installed on a remote PC. If I deactivate the AP and reactivate it works again. My FMGS Server PC is an i7 4790k.
Regards
Stefan
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:03 pm
by dkreiskott
Hi Stefan,
can you confirm that it happens together with a stuttering of the scenery?
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:49 pm
by michael1508
Hi Jean Luc,
I am experiencing the same issue, since I upgraded to B57 I believe.
Indeed , reducing the turbulence effect helps, when flying with AS. But it also appears without AS.
No issues at all in regards to this behavior before B57.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:14 pm
by dkreiskott
Hi Jean Luc,
I did several test flights today.
Takeoff and landing in EDDL 5R. The weather was always clear sky in P3D without active sky.
The only settings that were changed are in P3D. I tested with 33 Frames locked and unlimited.
Scenery and autogen turned off. The problem also occurs with very high frames.
And as Michael wrote, I have the problem since B57 too.
What I can say is, that since the flight was always exact the same, it always happens at the exact same spot. Left turn at the same point.
Now I need a suggestion from you as to what else could be wrong. Active Sky and Frames are not the problem.
Is there a way to identify the problem with logging?
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:52 pm
by LH320
dkreiskott wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:03 pm
Hi Stefan,
can you confirm that it happens together with a stuttering of the scenery?
Yes, I can confirm that. I usually have about 45 FPS (i7 13900k with RTX3090ti on the presentation PC). Could it be the data exchange between presentation PC and FMGS Server?
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:19 pm
by dkreiskott
LH320 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:52 pm
Yes, I can confirm that. I usually have about 45 FPS (i7 13900k with RTX3090ti on the presentation PC). Could it be the data exchange between presentation PC and FMGS Server?
Yes, I suspect that too. But we don't know which data is transmitted and how.
But I don't think it has anything to do with the network.
My network is 1000 Mbit, that should probably be enough.
JL has to say something about that.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:59 pm
by jeehell
Since B57 the AP/FBW was highly reworked, and it is more subject to issues if there is low FPS or high latency, the latter being increased by network.
On some systems it works in remote mode, on some it doesn't and I don't know the exact reason.
Antivirus and firewall are of course big killer items.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:00 pm
by dkreiskott
Hi Jean Luc,
I understand what you mean. I think my network is fast, but I will do some tests while p3d is running.
The firewall is deactivated on all PCs and no Antivirus is installed.
Again the question, is there a possibility to identify this by log files?
And do you think, a scenery stutter can cause this problem?
Which of the four fmgs server ports is the one that is affected. I would like to try changing the port.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:08 pm
by jeehell
No you won't see that in any logs.
Stutters definitely can do that .
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:12 pm
by dkreiskott
@Stefan,
one question, do you use skalarki profiler on the fmgs server pc?
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:59 am
by michael1508
jeehell wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:59 pm
Since B57 the AP/FBW was highly reworked, and it is more subject to issues if there is low FPS or high latency, the latter being increased by network.
On some systems it works in remote mode, on some it doesn't and I don't know the exact reason.
Antivirus and firewall are of course big killer items.
Hi Jean Luc, maybe it makes sense to investigate further in the direction of the reworked AP. The question is always, what has changed. In my case, hardware, network, settings have not changed at all. Also Dieter’s tests seem to confirm that it is not hardware related. I’m not the expert, but if the shaking always starts at the same point, to me this rather sounds like a software logic issue.
And maybe it is interesting to know, that like Dieter, I experience the shaking also when leaving EDDL 05R
@Dieter, what is your exact point on the route, when the shaking kicks in? We should compare, if we all have this issue at the exact same point. That might help to circle the root cause??
one question, do you use skalarki profiler on the fmgs server pc?
No, I still use Cockpit Concept on the FMGS Server PC.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:36 am
by dkreiskott
michael1508 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:59 am
Hi Jean Luc, maybe it makes sense to investigate further in the direction of the reworked AP. The question is always, what has changed. In my case, hardware, network, settings have not changed at all. Also Dieter’s tests seem to confirm that it is not hardware related. I’m not the expert, but if the shaking always starts at the same point, to me this rather sounds like a software logic issue.
And maybe it is interesting to know, that like Dieter, I experience the shaking also when leaving EDDL 05R
@Dieter, what is your exact point on the route, when the shaking kicks in? We should compare, if we all have this issue at the exact same point. That might help to circle the root cause??
Hi Michael,
I have a small flight plan take off and landing in EDDL 5R with weather clear sky. I use this to train manual landings. It's nothing special, but I could make it available to you. The problem arises exactly in the first left turn after the take off.
Since I'm still in the office, I could email you the flight schedule tonight. Write me a PM if you like and give me your email.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:45 pm
by bbruechmann
I can confirm i do have this issue of shaking too. I can also confirm that it start´s in most cases (if not in all) after a so called long frame of the sim. For me the the issue usually happen if the AP start a turn for example to follow the route and if then a long frame shows up after it the shaking starts. For me it seems that the short delay between the scenery or the physical position of the ac in the sim and the continous FMGS AP computations by the AP missmatch for just a few seconds, causes this misbehavior.
Even the seperation of the FMGS Server from the SIM over the network would explain this from a logical point of view, because then the data flow is even more sensible in case of latency.
But having in mind, that it seems that latency can cause this, it would happen also, if the FMGS Server and the Sim would run on the same computer theoretically, depending how powerfull this computer would be.
In short words, if the causes for stutters in the SIM can cause this issue, it would be worth to think about something like a latencity buffer for the FMGS AP anyway, as long as we all can´t be sure that the SIM isn´t hit by stutters even if they are very rare with powerfull and well maintained Computers, like in my case.
In total i have usually no stutters, even not in high dense areas or airports. But from time to time a long frame shows up even form me. This can have millions of reasons and even WIndows internals can cause LF´s, where on another day at the same point everything works well.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:07 pm
by Firefly77
Hi all, I had the same problem since B57. Only way to fully solve it was moving FMGS Server from a remote PC to the P3D main PC. Until then I never had this issue again. First I was also very hestiating to change my setup that way because having FMGS server on a different PC helped performance wise. However with the use of process lasso and assigning all the FMGS processes on the P3D main machine to dedicated CPU cores everything runs with the same smoothness like having FMGS server somewhere else. Best regards Michael
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:41 am
by dkreiskott
Firefly77 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:07 pm
Hi all, I had the same problem since B57. Only way to fully solve it was moving FMGS Server from a remote PC to the P3D main PC. Until then I never had this issue again. First I was also very hestiating to change my setup that way because having FMGS server on a different PC helped performance wise. However with the use of process lasso and assigning all the FMGS processes on the P3D main machine to dedicated CPU cores everything runs with the same smoothness like having FMGS server somewhere else. Best regards Michael
Hi Michael,
For me it's not a question of performance. My PC for P3D is more than well dimensioned. For me, this means a considerable amount of effort in terms of my hardware, which then has to be converted. With a hardware cockpit that has been running for more than 10 years, this is no longer an option. Since the problem is quite obvious, a solution should also be looked for.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:50 am
by dkreiskott
bbruechmann wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:45 pm
I can confirm i do have this issue of shaking too. I can also confirm that it start´s in most cases (if not in all) after a so called long frame of the sim. For me the the issue usually happen if the AP start a turn for example to follow the route and if then a long frame shows up after it the shaking starts. For me it seems that the short delay between the scenery or the physical position of the ac in the sim and the continous FMGS AP computations by the AP missmatch for just a few seconds, causes this misbehavior.
Even the seperation of the FMGS Server from the SIM over the network would explain this from a logical point of view, because then the data flow is even more sensible in case of latency.
But having in mind, that it seems that latency can cause this, it would happen also, if the FMGS Server and the Sim would run on the same computer theoretically, depending how powerfull this computer would be.
In short words, if the causes for stutters in the SIM can cause this issue, it would be worth to think about something like a latencity buffer for the FMGS AP anyway, as long as we all can´t be sure that the SIM isn´t hit by stutters even if they are very rare with powerfull and well maintained Computers, like in my case.
In total i have usually no stutters, even not in high dense areas or airports. But from time to time a long frame shows up even form me. This can have millions of reasons and even WIndows internals can cause LF´s, where on another day at the same point everything works well.
Hello Bernd,
I absolutely agree with you. Your description matches what I found. In this respect, this problem must also be considered. I have a lot of respect for Jean Luc's development. And since I program myself, I know how much effort is being put into this for the community. But with problems like this, we should all try to find the problem and not just move the software and put the problem aside.
That is no solution. I don't expect the problem to be solved tomorrow either.
@Jean Luc
Anything I can do to help you, I'll be happy to do. You just have to let me know what information you need.
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:49 am
by michael1508
Hi Dieter, I’ll PM you for the flight plan and to check, if the stutter / shaking starts at the exact point.
Could it be, that the stutter itself is a cause of the AP reworking ??
Re: Problem Aircraft shaking over the wings
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 12:05 pm
by dkreiskott
michael1508 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:49 am
Hi Dieter, I’ll PM you for the flight plan and to check, if the stutter / shaking starts at the exact point.
Could it be, that the stutter itself is a cause of the AP reworking ??
Hi Bernd,
no, it can't have anything to do with the revision of the AP/FBW. I've had the problem since B57 and was hoping that it would go away with B58. Bernd's explanation is absolutely conclusive for me. I also think that the P3D sometimes has "dropouts" as we see them as stuttering.
If the FMGS server then delivers data, it may not be processed at that moment. That's pretty much how I imagine it.
But of course I don't know how the data is sent from the FMGS server to the P3D.
michael1508 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:49 am
Hi Dieter, I’ll PM you for the flight plan and to check, if the stutter / shaking starts at the exact point.
Could it be, that the stutter itself is a cause of the AP reworking ??
